Video Documentary: Frank Joseph on Atlantis in the Azores

Transcript

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welcome explorers of the world's great mysteries I'm Doug Kenyon editor and publisher of

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Atlantis rising magazine we call this program simply conversations and we

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feature the many great contributors to our publication world-class researchers who dare to follow the real evidence

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where it leads and let the chips fall where they may in just a moment we'll be talking to prolific author and expert on

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Atlantis lore Frank Joseph about exciting new discoveries in the Azores and elsewhere but first for those of you

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unfamiliar with Atlantis rising magazine let me introduce you to our publication focusing on ancient mysteries

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unexplained anomalies and future science Atlantis rising has for many years provided a serious forum for alternative

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ideas of prehistory science and culture ideas which were not entirely ignored by

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the mainstream press her yet seldom treated with the respect they deserve our magazine appears bimonthly in

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subscriptions are also available worldwide and you can get it in PDF form on an issue-by-issue basis directly from

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our website at Atlantis rising dot-com among the many great articles in our May

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June 2014 issue is an eye-opening story by investigative reporter Patrick Marcel

1:46

Acker it's called Lost Tribes and it's about the enduring search for the lost heirs

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of the biblical Jacob some of the latest research including state-of-the-art DNA

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tracking may startle you and then there is morphic fields and DNA

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by William Dekker my life on earth is not explained by genetics alone in

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challenging the illusion of death Cynthia Logan has a game-changing conversation with top biologist Robert

2:17

Lanza and in pathological skepticism leading psychiatrist dr. DW Krieger

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explains why some Minds will never open and you'll also find a very exciting

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piece by our current guest Frank Joseph is a leading investigator of ancient

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mysteries he's also the editor in chief of ancient American magazine he's an

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author of many books including lost colonies of ancient America before Atlantis the destruction of Atlantis the

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lost civilization of Lemuria survivors of Atlantis the lost treasure of King

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Juba and other books he lives in Minnesota his website is ancient

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American calm welcome Frank to Atlantis rising conversations a real pleasure to

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be here well you know in the May June issue of Atlantis rising in your article

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Atlantis in the Azores question mark you wonder if a newly discovered underwater

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pyramid could resurrect an old hypothesis namely the idea that the

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Azores could be the site that Plato had in mind for his Atlanta story could you

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tell us what's going on here well what's very interesting is that less than a year ago there was a

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veterinarian who was piloting his own boat from Lisbon back to his home in the

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Azores Islands and he was rather casually just examining the sea bottom as many sailors do with his side scan

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sonar and he happened to pass over an area about less than 100 miles out from

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his homeland excuse me when a strange

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image floated over the screen it appeared to be a very geometrically

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uniform and symmetrical figure that resembled a kind of a square

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so he went back over it again he first of all he lost the target and then in a

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short time we found it again and did a finer scan on it and was able to tell

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that this was a almost unquestionably a man-made figure of some kind completely

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different from all of the other typography in the bottom of the ocean at

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that point where was the security part me where was this exactly that he found

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this or we don't know exactly because he has only shared that information

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apparently with the Portuguese authorities he's concerned that someone because of the structure is not

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particularly very deep apparently it's about because it's about a hundred feet deep so a free diver could go down there

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and perhaps do something to it it might be a possible an old ruin and therefore would be in a position where it might be

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vulnerable so he's not he has not declared it's the exact position to the public but we do know that it's about

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hundred miles off of the main Azure island of Santa Maria and it was there

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that he found what he claims as closely resembles a pyramidal shape now he did

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share this information with the Portuguese authorities who supposedly dispatched a ship a research vessel from

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the Portuguese Navy but I've been trying to verify this as others like Graham

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Hancock have and the Portuguese are really playing their cards close to their chests they're saying we sing very

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little information they're not saying whether it is natural or man-made or or anything about it at all unfortunately

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that's pretty much where it stands however I should mention something kind of interesting back in 1949 which is

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quite a long time ago the very first site sonar search of the ocean bottom

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was conducted by dr. Maurice Ewing for the National Geographic and during that

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time dr. Ewing scan this exact same area that this veterinarian had passed over

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and he was in an area called the Huron Dell deep the hearing doll deep is a

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pretty name indicates it's a abysmal plane so it's pretty far down

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there but it has some higher areas in it and in the center of this hereand all

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deep that was scan for the first time sonar by dr. Ewing he found what he said

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he was a new discovery he found a sunken volcanic island and he was able to

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retrieve samples of granite from this chunk of volcanic island and he was able

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to determine that this structure this natural structure had collapsed into the

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hearing dull deep within the last ten thousand years couldn't get any more specific than that but that's

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geologically that's extremely recently pretty close to photos like those dates

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there - it is it's really interesting of course now that ten thousand years could have been far more recent for example we

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know that there are a number of sea mounts not too far from this same area sea mount is basically a mountain that

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is underwater this particular sea mount that I'm referring to called mount ampere and

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mount ampere which has only I would say not even 200 miles from where this site

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supposedly was discovered that mount ampere is so shallow as a massive

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mountain that if you were to dial back in time say just after the last ice age

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when sea levels were know to be much lower than they are now that this would have been a massive island standing

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above sea level we know that because beach sand erosional beach sand has been found on the summit of mount ampere

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there is a place that really needs to be investigated so I think this entire area really refers to Atlantis I don't think

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you can say that this even if it turns out to be a a an artificial feature a

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real pyramid underwater which are very well could be this I think is part of the Atlantean polity as it were I think

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that the Atlanteans as described by Plato were an imperialistic people and they colonize large vast areas of the

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Atlantic and they made their homeland I think across these islands and large land masses some of which no longer eggs

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as far as pyramids on the Azores themselves that's particularly interesting because only within the last

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I would say less than seven years now pyramidal structures ruinous pyramidal structures small ones have been found on

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various of the Azore islands and there's an entire study being made of them right

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now so there's a kind of continuity from the land to the water unfortunately like say the authorities are not sharing whatever

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they found out if they have found that any well in a bed we can talk a little bit more about connecting it more

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exactly with plato's story but I couldn't help thinking that right now

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the if we can digress a little bit the movie Noah is apparently very hot right

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now and it's not to say neither one of us have seen it because I asked you before but the point is that I wanted to

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get to a lot of people think that the story of Noah is actually another

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version of the Atlantis story the story of you know an ancient destruction by

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flood and the survival thereof and I was

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wondering well what do you think the biblic do you think the biblical Noah's

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story is actually the story of Atlantis I think we have to understand that the

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writers of the Bible when the ancient Hebrews were a mosaic people what that

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means as a mosaic people and they describe them so even modern-day Hebrew scholars describe themselves as this

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they took big bits and pieces of other cultures and welded it as part of their own and the biblical story of Noah and

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the flood is easily traced back to Sumerian sources so there's more than

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right describe Gilgamesh and uh Schnapp Bateen the story goes back of course

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most recently to Babylon and we do know about Karthi the captivity that is

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referred to when the Jews lost Jerusalem and arc the cover most lost and all that that they were in the Babylonian

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captivity they were there for a long time for over a hundred years a lot of them became prominent citizens after

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time in Babylon so there's no doubt that they picked up this story of the flood from the

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Babylonian version I will not ship it in and the Babylonian story was itself

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taken from the Sumerian story so you can see the genealogy of the at least the

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Near Eastern or Middle Eastern account directly from Sumerian sources Nagel

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back really far the Bible goes back biblical story goes back oh maybe about little to 2500 600 years ago but the

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story of Gilgamesh that goes back to the 4th millennium BC so we go far back but

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it's interesting that this film is being made I think it's part of the cultural amnesia that has been really afflicting

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our species since the loss of Atlantis the wakening the awakening from the

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amnesia it's exactly and and that I think is so great about I've always

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admired the title that you chose for the magazine Atlantis rising that means that

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I've always felt that that meant that lanten consciousness is rising in the

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the general collective unconsciousness of mankind because it was such a high

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point that we reached I think at that time with Atlantis the the culmination of our both of our souls as it were our

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technological soul in our spiritual soul it was a great moment in history but we

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lost that we made a mistake and we just we self destructed it and the parallels

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between that events and what is happening now in the world I think they're so close that things like the

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Noah movie and so far then certainly our wonderful magazine are related to this

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general awakening that's happening it's kind of like a remembrance tapping engine with tapping into an

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archetype there well do you think that

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you know flood myths like you mentioned Gilgamesh and the others are certainly common all over the world and you're one

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of the people who is talked about this a lot recounting many of the stories in both the both on both sides

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of the Atlantic and would you expand on that a little bit then I'm thinking

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about a slant and and some of the American stories that relate to this

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theme well it is rather remarkable isn't it that around the world virtually every

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people have a flood tradition and of course scholars have been puzzled by

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this for many many years and some of the conclusions are like Joseph Campbell said well this is just kind of again

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archetype of the word that you chose this is um for water and dissolution and

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so on they tried to explain in Psychological terms there may be some basis factors it could be both I exactly

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that's what I'm saying I think it could be both it relates to this cultural amnesia that we discussed earlier but

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when I find particularly interesting when you go and you study these myths up close as I've been doing now for over

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thirty years going out 40 years now the interesting thing is when you just take a close examination of these myths

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whether they're highly sophisticated story with Plato in ancient Greece or amongst the Native American tribal

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peoples here the there are certain common denominators that go far beyond a

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mere psychological study what I mean by that is the basic theme of all of these

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myths are that at one time there was a high civilization in the Atlantic they

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don't specify exactly where or when but it's almost always the same story that

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there was once a virtuous powerful spiritually alert culture that

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flourished and dominated the world somewhere in the Atlantic that these people somehow committed a grievous sin

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or series of sins and self-destructed when that happened the survivors

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migrated to other parts of the world and created different cultures you find that everywhere that if you I can show you

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the Menomonee story of the flood and the Egyptian version under

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though and the Chinese versions of the Japanese version the Hindu versions naturally it they all have different

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names the stories vary quite a bit but the essentials are always there that

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there was some big mistake that was made and that the punishment of the gods fell

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on this culture because they had risen so high and were so good but had made

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these terrible errors now I find that that is goes far beyond just some

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psychological explanations it's certainly far beyond any coincidence these myths and stories by the way are

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not fables they are taken very seriously by the peoples who preserve these

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stories you must understand that most of these peoples were non literate they

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didn't have the capacity at one time in their past to write these things down so

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they had to enshrine those folk myths or memories rather that were so important

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to them in myth in story that's what kept these things going for through so many generations things can be lost but

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Pyrus can be burned even things written in stone can crumble but there really is

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no greater preservation I think that a myth that has wound itself into around

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the heartstrings of a people this is certainly what the Druids believed who were actually against the idea of

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writing things down instead they believed in the cultivation of the human memory and to some extent these other

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peoples have so I think that the story of the myth of the Great Flood yes as

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you said definitely a pertains to the loss of this high culture which the Greeks called at last

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well now it's commonly said in Orthodox thinking that we owe the Atlanta story

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to Plato and before Plato there were no others so but aside from the the

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indigenous stories that you refer to how about scholars historians that go

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back further than Plato that may have pointed in this direction see one

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sceptics faith like that it just shows an incredible incredibly sloppy scholarship because

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there were numerous Greek scholars before Atlantis who many of these

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scholars admit did have Atlantis accounts Plato is the is unique only

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because he didn't invent this story and he himself says in the Timaeus the the

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first dialogue that discusses that this had been passed on to him by from Solem the great Athenian legislature of the

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6th century BC but what's interesting is that even Plato's account is not complete we don't have the whole thing

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we have more of it than else than others well you can go back for example to ancient Greece and in the Book of the

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Dead they refer to their Great Island as

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excelente well that's the the Egyptian name of it these are nothing more than cultural

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inflections on the same thing the Greeks themselves I'm thinking of ours trade or

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us who lived 150 years before Plato our Strigoi had a manuscript simply called

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Atlantis that's recognized but it isn't discussed mostly the opponents of

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Atlantis are interested only in dismissing it without really having any kind of a dialogue about it I would

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loved I would be excited about having a dialogue with any of these skeptics but

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they never discussed it because they can't they just have nothing to stand on if you really examine these stories more

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closely you see they are rooted very deeply in these peoples that preserve them I was thinking about Atlas the name

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Atlas and Atlantis well the name appleís is a very unusual name it's a non Greek

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name the word soul it comes from the Sanskrit to support or to hold up interestingly enough of all of the gods

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or deities in the Greek pantheon the two that have non Greek pedigrees are Atlas

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and Poseidon Poseidon also has been very troubling to paleo linguists over the

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centuries be cause it's it's apparently as a sanskrit word of some kind but not entirely a

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week but the name atlas means to support or to hold up and that relates to the

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concept of mount atlas mount alice was viewed as supporting the sky this is i'm

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i can testify this to myself when i first visited Tenerife in the Canary Islands on board ship you could see this

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great mountain of Tenerife ax of Mount Ida rather and it was low cloud cover at

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the time so it looked as though the mountain was really holding up the sky also apple or appleís means to support

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as the sea does the sea supports those objects which can float and don't comes

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but say you find those same letters in America I'm thinking about slamming well

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epsilon is one but if you go to the Aztec calorie you can see that the the

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glyph for the flood is referred to as Apple APL same thing but epsilon is

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interesting because as you mentioned because when the Aztec people had been conquered the Spanish friars were

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collecting all their myths in order to better to debunk them they thought to convert them to Christianity and they

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were told that the by the Aztecs really call themselves the ten noche that the

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Aztecs were people who came from an island called the island of white

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daylight was out in the Atlantic Ocean and it was called a plan a CTL am the

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name for a plan the direct name means four means that the field of reeds re EDS and the reason they called it a plan

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or the field of reeds was a metaphor for its great wisdom because a reed was used

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as a an ink pen by the aztecs they would break off reeds dip it into a pigment

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and write with it so if you had mastery over a reed you are a wise person here's a whole field of reeds called a flan now

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it's interesting on the other side of the world men fo the Egyptian scholar historian that I mentioned earlier who

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lived about 300 years before Christ in men Ethel's works much of it survives not all of it does he talks about the

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origins of the Egyptian people and he says they came from a place called Sakura aru which was this island that

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began to sink and that the people the survivors of it left and came to the

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Nile Delta and created civilization there and the name cetera aru means

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field of reeds and Reed Reed was used for the same reason in ancient Egypt as

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it was used amongst the Aztecs it was a sign of literacy so here you have two totally different unrelated peoples that

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opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean both referring to a sunken homeland which they both call the field of reeds

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well this is something that scholars just choose to ignore but it's just one of thousands upon thousands of parallels

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between the ancient old world and Europe and the pre-columbian America

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well how literally should we take Plato because certainly there's been a lot of

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debate about whether or not the the numbers the the dating that he used and

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so forth may have actually we should reduce it by a factor of 10 or the size

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of the the Atlantean continent versus Libya for example and I know other I've

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heard many say that well actually the Greeks were very precise and very

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accurate and to try to parse it the way we do currently is totally inappropriate

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well it's a very controversial point that you bring up it's probably the most

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contentious of all amongst Atlanta lodgest their supporters and skeptics I would say that as a whole and I have

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studied and a restarted and annotated and virtually memorized the Timaeus and the Critias my colleagues have and we

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regard the body of the text as being extremely accurate no exaggeration and

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one of my finest colleagues can Carolee in Florida has pointed out and he's got

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some other I think of credible contemporaneous information that suggests this that

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really Plato's account is a spies report it reads like a spies report that a

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Greek spy went to Atlantis and was able to bring back this information I can

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just tell you in passing why we think so there's a real heavy emphasis in Plato's

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account the military deposition of Atlantis they we have precise

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information on the number of people involved in the Army and the Navy the number of ships they don't just say oh

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great fleets of ships why they have an accounting it's like a bureaucrats accounting the breakdown of its military

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it's very possible and I am inclined to think that Plato's account was really

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based on a Greek spies report somebody was actually there if that's the case boy it's really accurate now as regards

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time and so forth the Greeks seem to have had numerous

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ways of measuring time and this really wasn't confined only to Greece they were

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working with several different calendars simultaneously five that are known as

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royal calendars there's ethereal calendars lunar calendar solar calendars

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and it's really rough to me to understand what Plato means when he says

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oh this happened 9,000 years before his time how would you take this literally

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and our calendars today that this was yes this was about 9,000 400 or 500

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years before Christ our our we do look at this in material years it's a problem

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it does wear very nicely with the end of the last ice age it does and it doesn't

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it does to the extent that yes at the end of the last ice age there was

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massive flying going on this mountain pier that I mentioned earlier was

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submerged underwater before then it was a large island but the problem is

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plato's description of Atlantis is identifiably a Bronze Age civilization

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the way he talks about this so the interest in the Atlanteans and

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copper all this defines not a Neolithic people or even an earlier Neolithic

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people an ice age people it defines definitely a Bronze Age people and

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therefore I have come to believe I don't insist on this I've been wrong

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before I could be wrong again but I I believe I conclude that in fact Plato

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was talking about lunar years there's another reason why I think so the story

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of Atlantis supposedly or at least partially came from Egypt that's the

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account that we have that Solon went to Egypt and that the priests of the temple

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of the goddess knife sies told them the story if that's the case then the spy

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that was there in in Atlantis was probably Egyptian not Greek in any case

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we do know that the priests who were in control of the temple of knife where the

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story of Atlantis was enshrined they operated a lunar calendar they did not

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talk in terms of solar years so it's conceivable again this is speculation

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there's no proof of this it's conceivable that the priests when they were telling the story to Solon of

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Atlantis when they said that these things happen 9,000 years before they

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were trained about 9,000 lunar years that's a possibility and as I say the Bronze Age character of Atlantis as

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described in the Timaeus and the Critias kind of makes me think that that's what was going on now I've heard you

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criticize the Thira story or the idea that Atlantis is in the Mediterranean

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what's wrong with that idea everything we could have a long and rather dismal

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interview about that theory which is pretty much in decline now it was toted

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very strongly for a long while when they found that the island of ceará which was

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sort of a headquarters for the great Minoan civilization that this magnificent Island culture suffered a

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natural catastrophe sometime in the late bronze age when the entire island

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exploded being volcanic and collapsed into the sea so people immediately felt especially the skeptics of Atlantis ah

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this is Plato story he got it all balled up and he just fashioned this his

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fantasy based roughly on this event that took place and they were convinced that

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this took place about 1500 BC that's when that happened well all of the

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geologic dating now shows that it was did not take place and 1500 BC that

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would have been important if it did because in 1500 BC the Minoan civilization pretty well winked out of

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existence it stopped well it turns out that the the explosion of fira did not take place

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then instead it took place now we know for sure exactly when it took place in 1628 BC well what happened was Minoan

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civilization we now know flourished reached its zenith culturally after the

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destruction of fira so that doesn't wash with this great event now wiping out a

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civilization the Minoans bounced back from that versus our Golden Age of

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course the Egyptian civilization which was telling the story to to Solon was

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advanced far beyond any Minoan civilization and seems unlikely they

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would have referred to it in such respectful terms well of course and the

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Egyptians and the Minoans had a very excellent relationship always really great trading agreement cultural

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agreements going back and forth and there's no way that the Egyptians would have confused Atlantis on the Atlantic

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Ocean with Sarah in the Aegean I mean that's preposterous but the story of

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Atlantis in relationship to thira was just used by attempted debunkers that's

30:52

all and it's still used to a small extent but not the way it used to I used to get pretty hot about that when people

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were constantly bringing up fear oh that's got to be Atlantis but and that if you look into

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the details of the civilizations as described by Plato and the detail of Minoan civilization they bear very

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little in common with each other I don't mean just by their geological locations actually geographical locations but

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their their differences are profound and you can't really link them up and on now

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this isn't to say that the Minoans may very early in their cultural development may not have been influenced by Atlantis

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which was the leading cultural power of its time but the two are not synonymous

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well do you think it's possible that any lost civilization could have been

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technically advanced in terms that would we in modern surance I have no doubt

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that it was what we do know about the Atlanteans and just in in very

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conventional terms already described highly advanced people I'm referring to of course as I mentioned earlier is

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their metallurgy they were the ones who invented the Bronze Age for gosh sakes like I'm able to combine high quality

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high grade copper with tin and zinc well nobody else had done that well that's

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one indication the to take this a little bit further the Menominee Indians of

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Upper Wisconsin who share traditions of what they call the sea people of a

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marine men were these light-skinned foreigners according to them who arrived

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in the very ancient past and they extracted mother earth's shiny bones well this is course a metaphor analogous

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for copper mining we do know there was a huge copper mining enterprise that took

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place in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan between 3100 BC about that time and 1200

32:54

BC a phenomenal a staggering amount of the world's highest grade copper was

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removed and sophisticated mining techniques so this alone would indicate a culture that was in possession of a

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technology far beyond anything anybody else had at that time there have been stories of course more than astir

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some accounts by Plato that these people even mastered flight and all kinds of

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technologies that are just coming into our understanding today now of course

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people have used this critics again I'll use this to pupule Casey and all of the

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people who believe in such things but unfortunately Casey for them Casey has been proved correct

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in a great many cases why was I was going to ask you I ask you about Casey

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and what you thought of his material Atlantis and how do you tie it to that

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how do you connect it to the Plato story well I think that there is no

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contradiction between Casey and Plato the whole story of Atlantis is so huge

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the culture itself was an international a global culture that lasted for

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millennia not just for decades and they're looking at different parts of the same phenomena

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I think the Plato is looking at the very last gasp the very end of it where Casey

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looks at the not the beginning so much but after the beginning certainly and it's its earlier phases I was just

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saying you do know that recent research by Greg little and others indicates the

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presence of a Priya above land

34:39

development in the Bahamas and I'm not done talking about the Jay Road I'm talking about beyond that but going back

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again to the to the end of the last ice age going back possibly as much as as

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the 10,000 years we were talking about well we have something like gobekli tepe now which is holding that's such a place

34:59

where I mean that Dame blew my socks off I couldn't imagine that such a highly advanced culture was flourishing that

35:06

long ago no I should just review basically for people so for if they

35:11

aren't familiar with some of these names we're talking about go Bali Tepe a recent discovery in Turkey going back

35:18

probably to at least 10,000 years maybe earlier and of course we were talking

35:25

about Edgar Cayce and it's worth mentioning that he was the sleeping prophet who gave us a lot of

35:31

detail about in his readings about Atlantis and for which there has been

35:37

significant archaeological research in the last 3040 years anyway just to just

35:45

do just a little note there they touch people up on some of this I think you're

35:52

you're right to do that it's good to keep it clear in the minds of our listeners just exactly what we're talking about I think that if you read

35:59

Edgar Casey's work eventually you get the feeling that he was seeing things

36:05

there's no way this man could have falsified or made up so many incredible

36:10

details give an example of that he was telling this one person about some very

36:16

small detail about Atlantis back in the 1920s and he never mentioned that detail

36:22

again I mean throughout the 20s and the 30s it wasn't towards the end of his life and in the early 1940s that in another

36:30

reading case he brought up this exact same detail I think that's remarkable that something like that would have

36:37

resurfaced after the passes of so much time and things like that that give you

36:42

the feeling a ring of truth associated with the Cayce readings more

36:48

specifically than that one of the statements he made an incredible statement an unbelievable one was at one

36:55

time the nile river flowed into the atlantic ocean at by morocco well that

37:02

seemed in the context of the times in the 1930s utterly ridiculous such a thing had never happened

37:09

jaesi died in nineteen what did forty five I believe something like that and it wasn't until 1994 that a landsat's

37:19

survey done of North Africa found that the Nile River at one time diverted

37:27

itself straight across what is now the Sahara and emptied out not far from

37:32

Casablanca so I think things like that are just so heartening for people like

37:39

ourselves who the Casey had something to say and did in fact see things that nobody else did

37:46

well of course Casey went a long way in describing the technology of Egypt and

37:52

all kinds of things like that are unfamiliar to us now like the giant

38:01

crystals and other kinds of of things

38:06

and that are we have no no parallel to

38:12

these days and he accounts the points that that's the reason he says that

38:17

Atlantis went down the misuse of these these things that's right he says in

38:22

effect that technology is wonderful that's very admirable and that technology makes a wonderful servant but

38:31

a very cruel God and that is the lesson that comes out of Atlantis that the

38:37

Atlanteans were very great people they were very virtuous people they applied

38:42

their wealth in creative ways they lasted a long time but at some

38:47

indefinable point they began to feel that their technology was so powerful

38:53

that they could do anything with it whatsoever that they could contravene the laws of nature that they didn't have

38:59

to live according to virtuous policies any longer and they could literally live

39:04

willfully they could do anything any mistake they made could be corrected any sin they made could be redeemed through

39:12

technology and it was at that point where their technology was their

39:18

downfall specifically they began using according to Cayce their technology to

39:24

in their mining techniques this was the basis of their wealth was their huge

39:30

capacity to mine tons and tons of the world's highest grade copper which they

39:35

sold to the rest of the world and in using their mining techniques they created an imbalance in nature and

39:42

destroyed themselves that makes a lot of sense because when you look at where Atlantis probably is or was it's close

39:50

to something called the mid-atlantic ridge which is the most geologically on stable area of the entire planet more

39:57

earthquakes or they're known as sea quakes of course at the bottom of the ocean take Blair take place there than any other place in the world even more

40:03

than the Ring of Fire and so by causing some kind of a geological disturbance in that part of

40:09

the world indeed you could it that caused a huge horrible natural catastrophe I believe that's what

40:15

happened do you think there's a you see a connection between the copper that you referred to and and aura kill'em that

40:22

Plato spoke of as being the dominant Lee used metal Atlantis there's no doubt

40:30

about that Plato is I believe it's pronounced or HL CIM perhaps your pronunciation is more

40:35

correct than my spoken uh-huh well I've

40:43

tried to break it down as best I can and I've contacted scholars in ancient Greek and I've been led to believe that the

40:51

pronunciation is RH how come and it just literally means bright metal and it

40:57

refers to a very high grade copper Plato himself refers to RH elcome as that which was once abundant but is no longer

41:03

abundant that makes sense because our each alchemy could have only come from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan that is

41:10

where the world's highest grade copper exists doesn't exist anywhere to the same degree that it does in the Upper

41:18

Peninsula and that's where all this great mining enterprise took place by these sea people or marine men that the

41:24

Menominee Indians still talk about so the Ephesus re chakram was this high

41:29

grade copper that was the basis for Atlantean wealth now you're one of the people who sees a lot of evidence for

41:36

ancient civilization in America which I presume you see as part of the Atlantean

41:43

Empire and your magazine of course is devoted to a lot of that could you kind

41:50

of expand on that a bit for us well I think that the oceans of the world were

41:56

never barriers to mankind but as dr. Troy well how higher values to say that

42:03

the oceans of the world were in fact superhighways that conveyed people from one part of the world

42:08

the other when you feel that when you understand rather that a people as great as the ancient Egyptians who could have

42:14

raised this incomparable structure called the Great Pyramid they certainly were culturally and technologically able

42:21

to create a fleet of ships that could take them across the ocean which would be a far lesser achievement actually

42:28

than the Great Pyramid and I believe that the oceans of the world in fact have been these highways that have

42:33

connected peoples long before Columbus this does not denigrate Columbus achievement which was profound he was

42:39

right the more I learn actually about the great impact made on our country by

42:45

other cultures over the past now the greater my respect for Columbus because we have to understand that with the fall

42:51

of the ancient world when Rome fell what happened was civilization was

42:57

non-existence there were 500 years of Dark Ages in which all the high achievements of the past were lost and

43:03

reduced to scraps of legends and that's all that Columbus had to go on when it was his turn to across the Atlantic he

43:11

may not have been the first to arrive in the Americas but he was the first to publicly connect the ancient old

43:17

or the old world with the new and that was a tremendous achievement but the those that preceded him included the

43:24

Atlanteans and one of the greatest proofs for that but aside from this magnificent copper mining enterprise

43:30

which I've discussed at some length in my books it's a place called Poverty Point in the northeastern part of

43:37

Louisiana Poverty Point is the oldest city in the United States people think well the oldest city has got to be in in

43:43

Florida st. Petersburg but it isn't Moschino between augustine right I'm

43:50

sorry st. Augustine that's correct my little noodle gets so twisted around sometimes I need help from people like

43:56

me out I'm seldom able to be the kid to help her in this case all very much so great

44:02

I've really been so grateful over the years you've allowed me and so many others to I get this fabulous

44:08

information out to the general public through our marvelous magazine well Poverty Point is this the oldest city in

44:16

the United States oldest city in North America north of the Rio Grande and it was founded 1005

44:22

years before Christ it's uh almost a duplicate of plato's description of

44:28

Atlantis it's composed of alternating rings of land and water that rigidly was water in these moats that separate these

44:35

land rings and its time period coincides at least with the lunar understanding of

44:43

Atlantis 1500 BC that was really the middle point of the Bronze Age was typifies by major

44:53

migration patterns in the 1200 BC which we the end of the Bronze Age in Europe

44:59

that's when Poverty Point experienced a major population upsurge you know this is of course according to mainstream

45:06

scholars now this is not my own work there and so I believe that the

45:12

Atlanteans established an important colonial city a capital in Upper

45:18

Louisiana which at that time was the focal point of the major river systems in that area the Arkansas animus and the

45:25

Mississippi River were connected right through Poverty Point the Arkansas River

45:30

has since changed his course over the last 3,500 years but back then it was

45:37

this great marvelous city and some of the things that have been found on Poverty Point sound very Atlantean if

45:44

you go to the museum there it's a marvelous Museum they have a barrel literally a barrel filled with little

45:51

crystal owls effigies shaped into the image of owls out of quartz crystal that

45:59

sounds very Atlantean to those of us who have looked into this for so many years and it's an unusual thing to have found

46:07

in this marvelous City so what do you

46:12

think of the the pyramids on both both

46:17

sides of it the Atlantic obviously you see Atlantean origins - that kind of

46:22

construction what can you tell us about uniting those two elements it is a

46:29

interesting thing as an ethics you go around the world and you find pyramids not only in Egypt

46:35

and in Mesopotamia but you find them across Mexico and on South America across the Pacific into Polynesia into

46:42

China and one wonders is there some kind of a connection going on the connection

46:48

that I have found even though these similar structures are separated by many

46:54

thousands of miles and sometimes by thousands of years or again the mythic traditions associated with them for

47:01

example in in Tenochtitlan which was the capital of the Aztec empire now known as

47:09

Mexico City there were a number of pyramidal structures and at the very center of Tenochtitlan was the most

47:17

important pyramid and it was a kind of a conical pyramid with rows in five levels

47:23

five by the way was the sacred numeral numeral in Atlantis according to Plato but that pyramid the central pyramid the

47:30

most important one in the center of tenochitlan was dedicated to

47:36

Quetzalcoatl this was he was considered the founding father not only of

47:41

tenochitlan but also the Aztec empire the aspect people he came from a clan

47:47

and the story with Quetzalcoatl or the feathered serpent was that he was this

47:53

tall fair-haired man who arrived with his family and in the revenue of a number of so-called sorcerers who

48:00

possessed all this high magic in other words technology and they were the ones

48:05

that created this structure this pyramidal structure after a great flood

48:10

had destroyed that's atoll and now when you go to the other side of the world again to Egypt I've talked before about

48:16

the field of reeds Sakura aru the story of the founding of

48:22

the Great Pyramid is associated with the gods out also known as Thoth and he had

48:29

with him the Emerald tablets after he left Sakura Saru of the field of reeds the

48:35

Emerald tablets contained all the wisdom of the world and the story of the creation of the Great Pyramid was that

48:42

felt arrived at the Nile Delta and spoke these words off of the Emerald Tablet

48:49

and because he spoke these words the Great Pyramid and all the high civilization of dynastic Egypt

48:56

flourished and came into existence the original figure associated with the Great Pyramid was a thought or a thought

49:03

so here you have these combination of myths similar structures and they seem

49:10

to point to again some previous knowledge as inscribed on the Emerald

49:15

Tablet so by him speaking these so-called magic words in other words the technological wherewithal to create

49:23

something like the Great Pyramid had been preserved and had been arrived at at some former higher civilization you

49:30

see this in so many parts of the world this isn't to say that every single pyramid on earth is connected with a

49:36

flood legend but many are great many are and in different parts of the world the

49:41

if you go down to South America the same story is told on it's associated with kontiki viticulture or seafoam again

49:49

described as a fair-haired this time fair complected this time a red-haired culture bearer who comes after a great

49:56

flood and establishes andean civilization you go off to the Pacific

50:02

and there you find Maui who's also described as red-haired interestingly

50:07

enough amongst the people who are black haired people creating again the basis

50:13

for what they call the Yahoo or these great platforms that rose in pyramidal

50:19

levels on the island of Tahiti remarkable well since your since you're

50:24

mentioning the Pacific now let's let's get to Lemuria a little bit you've

50:29

written about that too and that of course for people who don't follow this as closely as we do

50:35

Lemuria preceded Atlantis as an ancient culture or civilization according to

50:42

esoteric sources how do you tie all of these together well I think it's

50:48

important for our listeners to understand that we live on a very dynamic planet filled with a great deal

50:55

of climactic and geological change and it's only natural that civilizations

51:00

which flourished a long time ago would have been sub to these geological and climatic illogical changes so to find more than

51:07

one civilization that has gone under the sea or has been destroyed through natural catastrophes it's not that

51:14

unusual yes Lemuria did exist the traditions again in the Americas across the Pacific and

51:21

in Asia make a very strong case for this high culture which preceded Atlantis and

51:27

was totally different if the Atlanteans were very much like modern-day Americans with all their high

51:33

technology the ancient Lemurians were more reminiscent of today's tibetan

51:38

buddhists whose emphasis is not on materialism or technology but on the

51:44

cultivation of the human soul and in this regard the Lemurians really were very successful and more

51:52

successful if in terms of longer life the Lemurians made this very strong

51:58

impact on the religious traditions and the high spirituality of Asia after

52:04

their civilization also went the way of Atlantis to the extent that it too was

52:09

the victim of a natural catastrophe well you know some of the people who have been most strongly identified with well

52:17

with all of these subjects and particularly Lemuria was James Church

52:23

Word and Augustus LeBlanc Joan and Arthur posnansky can what what do we owe

52:31

to folks like that and what how much of their work should we should we take

52:36

seriously I think that the work of these men and others needs to be very

52:41

seriously examined certainly they've made mistakes it's the nature of science

52:47

of course to make conclusions which are later invalidated or built upon by other

52:54

more recent discoveries but their fundamental more than their fundamental

52:59

work is valuable and is checked out over time we could go of course to all three

53:05

of these Minotaur how much time we have left for that but especially Colonel Church words certainly devoted many

53:12

decades of his life to a rational understanding

53:17

of this lost civilization of Lemuria which he called Moo it had many different names Lemuria is just its Roman name mooo was

53:24

probably more close to its original so I highly regard short words work and

53:30

certainly live long John and certainly pazam Sookie well one

53:35

other thing I wanted to touch on a little bit we've got a few more minutes here what about what's called epigraphic

53:43

evidence or some of the inscriptions and so forth that had been found in odd

53:49

places and I'm thinking about the work but people like Barry fel who wrote

53:54

America BC and I'm sure you've that's been an important part of what you

54:00

followed in the in your magazine there yes very much so these symbols are more

54:09

suggestive very suggestive and I think they contribute to the body of evidence that we work with but they are very

54:16

subjective in their interpretation the most some of the most interesting so Doug that I've ever seen are not too far

54:24

from where I lived luckily about maybe about 200 miles away in the southwestern corner of Minnesota

54:32

there's a place called Pipestone and Pipestone has a huge collection of

54:37

natural petroglyphs there was this rock outcropping that apparently attracted their early human beings to put these

54:45

symbols and many of them are very abstract but there are some they're very specific and I'm thinking this one

54:52

series that you can see to this day and go out and see it yourself which portrays the Native American story of

54:59

the Great Flood actually spells about in ideograms and that seems really very

55:06

Atlantean that's always a thrill to see how they portray the ancestors of their

55:12

people escaping from this great natural catastrophe that destroyed the former

55:18

Lodge of their ancestors this great island in the sea that was overwhelmed they got on the back of a turtle which

55:25

took them to America and hence that's the name of America Turtle Island was named after the

55:30

their survival from the great flood on the back of this turtle so it's uh that's that seems pretty unequivocal

55:37

that's that's a very interesting set of patroclus well Frank we thank you very

55:45

much we've been talking with Arthur who she's named author researcher frank

55:52

joseph editor of ancient american magazine and for more on as many ideas

55:57

and theories about the ancient past we recommend his books of course and of course his articles and atlantis rising

56:04

and for more on all of this check our website at atlantis rising calm frank's website by the way is ancient american

56:12

calm this is docked onion for Atlantis rise and conversations

56:21

you

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